PMC Release Meeting 20100219
Date: 2010-02-19
Time: 12M GMT
Venue: irc #adempiere-team
Support Spreadsheet: Adempiere PMC Release
Chat times in GMT-5
(07:01:09) red1: can i join in as observer?
(07:01:23) CarlosRuiz: you can participate
(07:01:27) red1: thanks
(07:01:29) CarlosRuiz: anybody can
(07:01:44) CarlosRuiz: meetings are open / that's why we're in IRC :-)
(07:01:50) nwessel [~nwessel@194.95.62.19] entered the channel.
(07:01:57) CarlosRuiz: Hi Norbert
(07:01:59) nwessel: hi
(07:02:16) red1: hi norbert wessel
(07:02:46) bcahya: :)
(07:03:35) CarlosRuiz: Norbert - can I propose agenda?
(07:03:40) nwessel: yes, sure
(07:04:00) nwessel: what about Paul and Satyaakam?
(07:04:19) CarlosRuiz: Paul could not attend - Satyaakam wrote me that he's traveling
(07:04:29) nwessel: ok
(07:05:05) CarlosRuiz: ok - this is the third meeting :-) so I already have experience about what can we do in 1h :-)
(07:05:44) CarlosRuiz: proposed agenda
(07:05:44) CarlosRuiz: - define a periodic meeting
(07:05:44) CarlosRuiz: - review the scope defined in PMC Structure
(07:05:44) CarlosRuiz: - review a potential list of initial tasks to work on, i.e. define release strategy, define plan to release next version, etc
(07:06:27) nwessel: agree
(07:06:39) CarlosRuiz: so, periodic meeting
(07:06:46) CarlosRuiz: biweekly? monthly?
(07:07:03) CarlosRuiz: purpose of the meeting - review the advance of tasks and new tasks to work on
(07:07:12) nwessel: right
(07:07:18) CarlosRuiz: and talk about what we need if time allows
(07:07:18) nwessel: I suggest to make biweekly
(07:07:46) nwessel: at least at the beginning
(07:08:01) CarlosRuiz: yep - agree
(07:08:05) nwessel: time is a problem
(07:08:17) nwessel: we have people from all continents in the same group
(07:09:01) nwessel: do you know from which town paul is
(07:09:02) CarlosRuiz: I'm trying to accomodate myself to majority
(07:09:15) nwessel: I know. you started very early today, right?
(07:09:33) CarlosRuiz: are you early bird?
(07:09:46) CarlosRuiz: 7AM your time is ok for you?
(07:09:53) nwessel: yes, I align
(07:10:05) nwessel: is that GMT?
(07:10:18) CarlosRuiz: no, 6GMT
(07:10:30) nwessel: 7 GMT+1 one is fine
(07:10:47) nwessel: what time would have ?
(07:10:57) nwessel: is that 2?
(07:10:57) CarlosRuiz: ok - because I can make it wednesdays 6 GMT - and it will be adjacent with architecturel - which is perfect for me
(07:11:02) CarlosRuiz: 1h
(07:11:07) nwessel: ouch
(07:11:20) nwessel: paul would be 15 or something
(07:11:32) CarlosRuiz: Paul will be 17
(07:11:35) nwessel: no, 18
(07:11:40) nwessel: ah ok
(07:11:55) nwessel: and that would be fine for you as well?
(07:12:16) nwessel: we can make 06 GMT+1
(07:12:36) nwessel: earlier than that would hurt a lot :-)
(07:13:21) CarlosRuiz: for me is perfect this: wednesday 6AM GMT 1h duration
(07:13:21) CarlosRuiz: because it will be adjacent to architectural
(07:13:31) nwessel: ok
(07:13:32) CarlosRuiz: if that's ok for you I can try setting up in calendar
(07:13:42) nwessel: yes, please
(07:13:47) CarlosRuiz: ... doing ...
(07:14:10) nwessel: ... waiting ... ;-)
(07:14:13) CarlosRuiz: starting feb 24 or march 3 ?
(07:14:34) nwessel: 24 feb
(07:14:38) nwessel: lets get it started
(07:17:11) CarlosRuiz: ready - invitation sent
(07:18:05) CarlosRuiz: 2 - review the scope defined in PMC Structure
(07:18:05) CarlosRuiz: http://www.adempiere.com/index.php/PMC_Structure#Release_Management_Group
(07:18:34) CarlosRuiz: basically:
(07:18:34) CarlosRuiz: "Role of this team will be advise, help, and work on the release strategy."
(07:18:41) nwessel: may I ask a question in advance
(07:18:50) CarlosRuiz: sure
(07:19:20) nwessel: I was wondering if it is allowed to discuss certain topics via public telephone conference
(07:19:23) nwessel: to speed things up
(07:19:51) nwessel: whatever complex issue we discuss we lose a lot of time due to typing and making things clear and not understanding
(07:20:11) CarlosRuiz: honestly sounds hard for me
(07:20:22) CarlosRuiz: :-) to cope with three different hard accents
(07:21:25) nwessel: is my accent so bad ? ;-)
(07:21:28) nwessel: just kidding
(07:21:30) nwessel: ok, understood
(07:21:40) nwessel: we stick to irc
(07:21:40) nwessel: and wiki
(07:21:42) CarlosRuiz: hehehe - yours is the easier of the three
(07:22:00) CarlosRuiz: I don't know how Satyakaam talks - but I find hard to understand indian accent
(07:22:01) nwessel: yeah, I also have problems understanding native speakers like Paul :-D
(07:22:07) nwessel: thanks :-)
(07:22:09) CarlosRuiz: and hard to understand Paul also
(07:22:24) nwessel: especially via high latency voip
(07:22:28) nwessel: I think you are right
(07:22:43) nwessel: lets move on
(07:22:55) nwessel: 2 - review the scope defined in PMC Structure
(07:23:01) CarlosRuiz: ok - so I guess our first task must be to define the release strategy
(07:23:13) CarlosRuiz: try a roadmap and wishlist
(07:23:32) nwessel: I think we agree on switching to time based
(07:23:35) CarlosRuiz: we can try a community brainstorm for the wishlist
(07:24:00) CarlosRuiz: I'm opening google spreadsheets to have a list of tasks
(07:24:03) CarlosRuiz: is that ok for you?
(07:24:08) nwessel: wishlist means functionality for a release?
(07:24:09) nwessel: ok
(07:24:14) nwessel: can I share that view
(07:24:15) nwessel: ?
(07:24:49) CarlosRuiz: the spreadsheet?
(07:24:55) CarlosRuiz: of course, we're editors
(07:26:01) nwessel: I am new to the google apps
(07:26:26) CarlosRuiz: do you have google mail account?
(07:26:30) nwessel: yes
(07:26:34) nwessel: I have everything set up
(07:27:18) CarlosRuiz: ok / invitation sent
(07:28:12) CarlosRuiz: please check your e-mail
(07:28:32) nwessel: cant you send me the link via IM?
(07:29:53) CarlosRuiz: sent
(07:30:12) nwessel: thanks!
(07:31:32) nwessel: link does not work, sorry
(07:31:38) nwessel: email has not arrived yet
(07:31:47) nwessel: it tries to log on via your account
(07:32:07) nwessel: got it
(07:32:12) nwessel: via my account
(07:32:28) kai7 [~Kai7@port-87-193-237-134.static.qsc.de] entered the channel.
(07:32:35) nwessel: I have a comment regarding forum thread
(07:32:46) CarlosRuiz: it says you're in
(07:32:50) CarlosRuiz: sure
(07:33:11) CarlosRuiz: we can leave that task for later when we're more advanced
(07:33:18) nwessel: I like to add that wishlist is a difficult term
(07:33:38) nwessel: wishlist of features where we have maintainers, ok
(07:33:45) hengsin [~hengsin@115.164.153.58] entered the channel.
(07:34:00) nwessel: but inviting everybody to write down what he wants leads to nowhere as we do not have ressources
(07:34:07) nwessel: do I get this point wrong?
(07:34:33) CarlosRuiz: no, it's ok - it can create false expectatives also - it's something to be careful with
(07:34:43) nwessel: so gather functionality for the next release that is backed up by maintainers is what I woudl like
(07:34:52) hengsin: *** observer ***
(07:34:59) nwessel: hello hengsin
(07:35:13) CarlosRuiz: :-) everybody is welcome to participate - no need to be just observer
(07:35:49) hengsin: hi, just here for a short while, gtg soon ..
(07:36:02) CarlosRuiz: ok
(07:36:24) CarlosRuiz: Norbert - anyways a wishlist can lead us to know what people wants - but maybe is too early to call for that
(07:36:49) nwessel: it might awake wrong expectations
(07:37:10) CarlosRuiz: that's why I want to make a clear difference between wishlist and roadmap
(07:37:37) CarlosRuiz: wishlist is what anybody ask - even crazy things sometimes
(07:37:37) CarlosRuiz: but a roadmap can be created just with committed resources or maintainers
(07:38:07) trifon: Carlos. just one comment. Maintainer means that somebody maintains something which already exists.
(07:38:09) nwessel: I undeerstand
(07:38:19) trifon: for roadmap i think only committed resources count.
(07:38:39) CarlosRuiz: or committed maintainer
(07:38:51) trifon: also readmap usualy measn something new which you want to do. or something which you want to change.
(07:39:04) trifon: which agains measn committing resource to do it.
(07:39:13) CarlosRuiz: yes - or something you want to fix
(07:39:19) trifon: all adempeire devs are maintainers.
(07:39:21) hengsin: we need commitment to implement and maintain
(07:39:25) nwessel: yes
(07:39:31) nwessel: major point here
(07:40:17) CarlosRuiz: hengsin , trifon , do you want invitation to see the spreadsheet?
(07:40:26) trifon: yes.
(07:40:33) trifon: rememebr i'm constant spy here.
(07:40:35) hengsin: ok
(07:40:43) trifon: so reading is alywas good!
(07:40:53) CarlosRuiz: sent
(07:41:24) CarlosRuiz: we have another major short term goal
(07:41:29) CarlosRuiz: release a new stable
(07:41:39) CarlosRuiz: or LTS if we can call it different
(07:42:04) hengsin: *** away ***
(07:42:04) nwessel: LTS = long term support
(07:42:07) CarlosRuiz: for that we need to define a specific strateguy
(07:42:21) nwessel: and define what "long term" means
(07:42:27) CarlosRuiz: I mean we need to define a general release strategy
(07:42:41) nwessel: which defines which kind of release we have
(07:42:41) CarlosRuiz: and we need to define currently a short term strategy to achieve the next LTS or stable release
(07:42:55) CarlosRuiz: specially I think we need to triage the >400 bugs out there
(07:43:11) CarlosRuiz: and do some QA to ensure which functionalities are working
(07:43:26) nwessel: and document how they work
(07:43:45) nwessel: problem is, that we do not have use cases where any QA people can say if it works as designed
(07:44:36) nwessel: it is up to the individual knowledge of the QA guy if he is testing right
(07:45:04) nwessel: so, Carlos, I see two major tasks
(07:45:19) CarlosRuiz: I would like to specify - with empty QA team :-) - the test cases needed
(07:45:23) nwessel: 1. get a stable starting point (triage bugs, docs, whatever)
(07:45:26) CarlosRuiz: to guarantee at least basic functionality working
(07:45:34) nwessel: 2. starting from that develop release strategy
(07:45:52) CarlosRuiz: yes
(07:45:57) CarlosRuiz: one thing
(07:46:00) nwessel: my question is, does a release strategy makes sense if you do not know from what to start
(07:46:08) CarlosRuiz: I've been integrating things from trunk to release with QA and peer review
(07:46:23) nwessel: or the basis is so volatile that you start over and over
(07:46:35) CarlosRuiz: but probably to achieve soon a stable we're going to need to create a branch for stabilization
(07:46:57) nwessel: ok
(07:47:10) CarlosRuiz: no Norbert, I think after we achieve the next stable - with proper QA we can keep releasing timely stable things
(07:47:25) CarlosRuiz: there is QA and peer review at this moment in /release
(07:47:35) nwessel: I see
(07:47:40) CarlosRuiz: minor at this moment as I'm doing that alone
(07:47:46) nwessel: I do not know the status of release branch
(07:47:54) nwessel: which is not good
(07:48:23) CarlosRuiz: yes - that's why I think we need an inventory of functionalities with status (to be proposed to Functional team)
(07:49:09) CarlosRuiz: and the QA test cases can help us to make the process unbiased and repeatable
(07:50:21) CarlosRuiz: I'll change the order of tasks to prioritize as you adviced
(07:51:07) nwessel: that inventory is an excellent point
(07:51:35) CarlosRuiz: sorry Norbert, in the movement I lost which task you were assigned
(07:51:49) nwessel: no problem
(07:51:57) CarlosRuiz: which one was?
(07:52:00) CarlosRuiz: ok
(07:52:28) CarlosRuiz: I remember you opened also a wiki page to collect things developed and wanting to be contributed
(07:52:45) CarlosRuiz: we can try to check what of that can be on roadmap or wishlist
(07:53:01) nwessel: you mean feature collaboration page
(07:53:05) CarlosRuiz: yep
(07:53:31) CarlosRuiz: http://www.adempiere.com/index.php/Feature_Development_Collaboration
(07:53:32) nwessel: http://www.adempiere.com/index.php/Feature_Development_Collaboration
(07:53:34) nwessel: lol
(07:53:38) nwessel: bad timing
(07:53:43) CarlosRuiz: :-)
(07:54:12) CarlosRuiz: another task could be to check status of things on that page
(07:54:41) nwessel: and we might need another tool
(07:54:58) nwessel: because the wiki page does not support multi user as it designed
(07:55:18) CarlosRuiz: a google spreadsheet is easier to set up and maintain
(07:55:21) nwessel: we might use google docs
(07:55:23) nwessel: exactly
(07:55:35) nwessel: I lost a lot of time to set up that page
(07:55:41) nwessel: and maintain it
(07:55:48) CarlosRuiz: wiki tables are hard to write
(07:55:58) nwessel: we could publish the results to wiki anyway
(07:56:12) CarlosRuiz: spreadsheet can be published as HTML
(07:56:34) CarlosRuiz: like this one:
(07:56:34) CarlosRuiz: http://spreadsheets.google.com/pub?key=tidDB6O3jr5u-CP9L9BTnUA&single=true&gid=0&output=html
(07:57:02) nwessel: nice!
(07:57:59) CarlosRuiz: ok - I think we have enough tasks to start playing :-)
(07:58:18) nwessel: yes :-)
(07:58:21) CarlosRuiz: the idea is we work on those tasks - discussing in mail list - and/or collaborating with google docs
(07:58:32) CarlosRuiz: and on next meeting we evaluate the advance and new tasks
(07:58:46) nwessel: ok
(07:58:52) nwessel: do we have our own mailing list?
(07:58:55) CarlosRuiz: fell free to add new tasks as they appear on your mind
(07:58:57) nwessel: or do we use pmc
(07:59:04) nwessel: yes, ok
(07:59:13) CarlosRuiz: pmc mail list with topic [Release]
(07:59:48) CarlosRuiz: check here
(07:59:48) CarlosRuiz: http://www.adempiere.com/index.php/PMC#Mail_List
(08:00:19) CarlosRuiz: ok - so we can finish the meeting - thanks for attending
(08:00:30) nwessel: thanks, Carlos
(08:00:41) nwessel: bye everybody
(08:00:47) CarlosRuiz: bye
(08:01:07) trifon: bye
(08:37:06) hengsin has left the channel (quit: ).
(08:52:24) red1 has left the channel (quit: Ping timeout: 252 seconds).
